I agree with everything you have said. I am ready for people to wake from their ‘wokeness’. Can’t we just get back to traditional values and write books we are comfortable with our kids reading. Your book is excellent in that regard as well as the Skystone Chronicles by Blake and Raven Penn. Shameless plug for my kiddos here.🤓
Brilliantly put. As a Latter-Day Saint, myself, I wasn’t disappointed simply by the inclusion of a same-sex relationship (they happen in our world and shouldn’t be ignored in fantasy), but the by elevation of the relationship. I had the same issue with the creation of the Unoathed, that it seemed to say one could demand reality accommodate what was “good” for oneself rather than accept reality’s laws to become one’s best self.
Thank you for providing your perspective so coherently and clearly. I hope your post doesn't make anyone lose respect for you - these topics do seem to awaken Odium on both sides haha. I want to be equally transparent. I am not of the Latter-Day Saint religion myself, nor am I gay, but I am interested in understanding different perspectives. Apologies in advance for the long post.
For me, one of Brandon's greatest strengths as a writer is "perspective taking". I think he takes a lot of care to represent many different perspectives that are representative of reality, and does so in a way that doesn't feel like a cheap trick. For example, I think he takes great care in his representation of mental health issues in general, and of physical disability such as through Rysn. He does so in a way that many people feel is representative of their experience. In doing so he has represented some perspectives such as Renarin and Relain's gay relationship, as well as Shallan's mental state that is similar to DID that are controversial, but none the less they are experiences that people have and that makes them feel seen and understood. I think this is a need all humans have and many are denied (and Shards according to the end of Wind and Truth :P). We are similar in that way, but quite different in many others. Something that might feel discordant (what you call "being kicked out of the book") to some readers makes other readers feel understood and seen in ways they haven't felt in any story before and sometime there is a bridge built to help us understand perspectives we found uncomfortable before. With millions of people reading thousands of pages the internal experience is going to be vast.
This is my thoughts of Wind and Truth and Brandon's works independently of your blog post, but they will tie in later.
If I understand correctly from your post, in the Latter-Day Saints religion the discomfort with same-sex romantic relationships comes not from a which to deny people who have these feelings their existence, but rather - like a parent trying to protect a child - from love and wanting what you (collectively) will lead them away from suffering. If I understand correctly, you don't have an issue with Brandon acknowledging that gay people and couples exist, but rather that it was a main plot point, that it happened to a main character. This is because it might encourage others to (here I might be interpreting and adding more than you said) think that giving in their feelings can lead to a happy life, which according to the Church cannot be true because they can't have children naturally. I want to understand your perspective so please correct me if I misunderstood any part.
Here is where I struggle to understand ... if the Church believes the only way to be truly happy in a relationship is to be married to someone of the opposite sex and have children and believes this is reality, I'm wondering how this combines with the reality of there being people who cannot have children naturally because of a medical condition. Are they being punished in some way ?
Also I'm confused about why suffering is so one dimensional. Is the lack of true acceptance that might cause suffering from already living family and community always going to outweigh the potential suffering from not being in the "ideal" family? Or of families who have have biological children, but are not happy? To me it feels like there is more effort put into worry and critique of gayness than abuse in hetrosexual marriages?
Bring this together with my original thoughts on the book, for me Renarin and Relain's budding romance is not meant to be applauded by everyone, but understood as a different perspective. Yes, we see it through their eyes and Shallan's eyes and they are all young and it make sense that the feelings described are those of a crush and of excitement for a friend. If those chapters had been described through Dalinar or one of the singer's eyes it might have been very different. The conversation might have then focused on the inter-racial nature of their relationship, which 50-100 years ago would have been just as controversial. The difficulty of their relationship might actually still be discussed in the later half of Stormlight. However, whether this difficulty is intrinsic or made worse by a society I think is a worthwhile contemplation.
I have two more thoughts:
1. The issue with never putting certain aspects in the spotlight is that is does send a message that it is not accepted.
2. Can religion (or our understanding of it) change and evolve and grow? It this because God needs to be perfect and all knowing from the beginning? What if this is not true? Or if as we as a human species learn more, we understand the scriptures differently? There are so many different religions in the world ... millions, if not billions of people disagreeing on various aspects. Does this not point to none of us have a true understanding, rather than one select group being right and everyone thinking they are that special select group?
I agree with everything you have said. I am ready for people to wake from their ‘wokeness’. Can’t we just get back to traditional values and write books we are comfortable with our kids reading. Your book is excellent in that regard as well as the Skystone Chronicles by Blake and Raven Penn. Shameless plug for my kiddos here.🤓
Thank you! And I LOVE the Sky stone Chronicles 😁
Brilliantly put. As a Latter-Day Saint, myself, I wasn’t disappointed simply by the inclusion of a same-sex relationship (they happen in our world and shouldn’t be ignored in fantasy), but the by elevation of the relationship. I had the same issue with the creation of the Unoathed, that it seemed to say one could demand reality accommodate what was “good” for oneself rather than accept reality’s laws to become one’s best self.
Yes, exactly! I actually objected to the Unoathed in my previous post--glad I'm not just being a stick-in-the-mud about this! 😅
Hi,
Thank you for providing your perspective so coherently and clearly. I hope your post doesn't make anyone lose respect for you - these topics do seem to awaken Odium on both sides haha. I want to be equally transparent. I am not of the Latter-Day Saint religion myself, nor am I gay, but I am interested in understanding different perspectives. Apologies in advance for the long post.
For me, one of Brandon's greatest strengths as a writer is "perspective taking". I think he takes a lot of care to represent many different perspectives that are representative of reality, and does so in a way that doesn't feel like a cheap trick. For example, I think he takes great care in his representation of mental health issues in general, and of physical disability such as through Rysn. He does so in a way that many people feel is representative of their experience. In doing so he has represented some perspectives such as Renarin and Relain's gay relationship, as well as Shallan's mental state that is similar to DID that are controversial, but none the less they are experiences that people have and that makes them feel seen and understood. I think this is a need all humans have and many are denied (and Shards according to the end of Wind and Truth :P). We are similar in that way, but quite different in many others. Something that might feel discordant (what you call "being kicked out of the book") to some readers makes other readers feel understood and seen in ways they haven't felt in any story before and sometime there is a bridge built to help us understand perspectives we found uncomfortable before. With millions of people reading thousands of pages the internal experience is going to be vast.
This is my thoughts of Wind and Truth and Brandon's works independently of your blog post, but they will tie in later.
If I understand correctly from your post, in the Latter-Day Saints religion the discomfort with same-sex romantic relationships comes not from a which to deny people who have these feelings their existence, but rather - like a parent trying to protect a child - from love and wanting what you (collectively) will lead them away from suffering. If I understand correctly, you don't have an issue with Brandon acknowledging that gay people and couples exist, but rather that it was a main plot point, that it happened to a main character. This is because it might encourage others to (here I might be interpreting and adding more than you said) think that giving in their feelings can lead to a happy life, which according to the Church cannot be true because they can't have children naturally. I want to understand your perspective so please correct me if I misunderstood any part.
Here is where I struggle to understand ... if the Church believes the only way to be truly happy in a relationship is to be married to someone of the opposite sex and have children and believes this is reality, I'm wondering how this combines with the reality of there being people who cannot have children naturally because of a medical condition. Are they being punished in some way ?
Also I'm confused about why suffering is so one dimensional. Is the lack of true acceptance that might cause suffering from already living family and community always going to outweigh the potential suffering from not being in the "ideal" family? Or of families who have have biological children, but are not happy? To me it feels like there is more effort put into worry and critique of gayness than abuse in hetrosexual marriages?
Bring this together with my original thoughts on the book, for me Renarin and Relain's budding romance is not meant to be applauded by everyone, but understood as a different perspective. Yes, we see it through their eyes and Shallan's eyes and they are all young and it make sense that the feelings described are those of a crush and of excitement for a friend. If those chapters had been described through Dalinar or one of the singer's eyes it might have been very different. The conversation might have then focused on the inter-racial nature of their relationship, which 50-100 years ago would have been just as controversial. The difficulty of their relationship might actually still be discussed in the later half of Stormlight. However, whether this difficulty is intrinsic or made worse by a society I think is a worthwhile contemplation.
I have two more thoughts:
1. The issue with never putting certain aspects in the spotlight is that is does send a message that it is not accepted.
2. Can religion (or our understanding of it) change and evolve and grow? It this because God needs to be perfect and all knowing from the beginning? What if this is not true? Or if as we as a human species learn more, we understand the scriptures differently? There are so many different religions in the world ... millions, if not billions of people disagreeing on various aspects. Does this not point to none of us have a true understanding, rather than one select group being right and everyone thinking they are that special select group?